Why I Won’t Be Buying The Axe-FX II
Today I learned that The Axe-FX II has just been released. Will this be the one that makes digital better than analogue? I’m pretty doubtful, having been there – done that.
About 6 months ago, I decided to sell up all of my guitar gear and purchase an Axe-FX Ultra. Quite a few of my guitar mates couldn’t beleive I did it, but I had the digital ‘itch’ and it needed scratching.
I spent months checking out reviews and videos and then I finally made the plunge. I used the Axe-FX live and in the studio almost 24/7 for 4 weeks before deciding that I missed my tube amp. So I sold the Axe-FX in order to get my tube amp and pedal board again, and I haven’t looked back.
This is one of the many videos that convinced me to sell it all and get the Axe-fx Ultra..
Why I Went Back To Analogue
My Axe -FX Ultra at home, waiting to be played..
I will say that the AxeFx was amazing.. I had lots of fun playing with it for 4 weeks.
In the end, after playing with it live (direct to pa) every weekend and playing around with it at home (through studio monitors) every night for 4 weeks, I started to miss the ‘extra’ juice that I used to get from my old pedal board and vox AC15.
I’m sure there is more tweaking I could have done to get it sounding better, but to be honest, I’m so happy having a pedal board again. To me, there is nothing like the ‘real thing’.
There are lots of pros and cons of the axefx, but here is what stood out to me:
Pros:
- Easy to setup at a live situation and get good tones straight away.
- You can spend hours on each preset for every song in the set and just recall them with a button.
- Sounds really good and very close to a tube amp.
- Tons of awesome effects.
My Vox stack on Friday night.. that sounds much better!
- Tons of awesome amp sims.
Cons:
- IMHO, this does not sound as good as a good pedal board and amp combo.
- Takes a lot of tweaking time to get really good tones exactly how you want them.
- I ended up only using one or two amp simulations most of the time rather than the 70+ amp sims in the unit.
- The cost. I could get a real nice pedal board for about half the price of the axefx.
- This is trying to simulate the real thing… for me I’d rather just get the real thing (ie. analog pedals and a tube amp).
Summary
While many guitarists, like myself, still believe that digital doesn’t come close enough to the original amps and analog effects, Digital is, in fact, improving and quickly growing to be a preferred choice of some guitarists. And now, with the release of the Axe-FX II, the quality of digital audio is hard to refute.
Here are some sound clips of the new Axe FX II..
So if you want to get into the digital side of guitar, I highly recommend testing the Axe-Fx II. There is currently no product anywhere else in the world that can even come close to the quality, flexibility and tone production that you will get from your Axe Fx. As the price shows, this unit is in a class of it’s own.
On a side note, the 11 Rack may be in trouble now as the the original Axe-Fx comes down in price. If they both cost the same price, I think most guitarists would prefer the Axe-FX over the 11 Rack?
You can find more information regarding the Axe-FX II here.
Your Say
Are you a fan of digital guitar effects? Would you buy the Axe-FX II?
Tags: amp, analogue, axe fx 2, axe fx II, axefx, digital, Effects Pedals, Guitar Pedals, tube, valve
About The Author: Danny
I have been playing guitar for over 20 years now and love it more every day. I hope through this blog I can inspire and be inspired by other musicians. Music is a journey, and this blog is my way of sharing that.
View all articles from Danny (61)
10.05.11
Hi Danny all interesting points.
I haven’t tried the Axe FX or the more expensive rack mount digital modeling for guitar and amps/effects as yet.
I use Amplitube and guitar rig Amplitube 3 and amplitube fender are very good and through a solid state amp thety are pretty good into a tube amp even better.
There are dummy load gizmos that are recommended so that the guitar pickups are properly loaded in the same way they would be into a tube amp or analogue pedals I am interested to know if that applies to Axe FX and the more expensive kit as well?
I miss my Marshall JCM2000 which is still in storage in the UK playing through my ME50 into that Amp along with a Blues Breaker JCM 45 4 a 12 combo I borrowed from a frieind gave me one of the sweetest set ups I ever played through with my 74 Les Paul Custom that said I do love the digital modelling stuff.
I am very excited about both guitar modelling now as well as Amp/effects DSP modelling the Roland
GR 55 is still very much on my shopping list as is the VG 99 and a ghost pickup system I think its a matter of personal choice as you say The AXE FX is an expensive piece of kit and its very interesting to hear your decision will be interested to see what others have found.
11.05.11
The way that the axefx models the amp is very similar to the signal path of a tube amp, however it is only “modeling” the tube amp, which IMO is not quite the same as having the real deal.
Another thing I noticed is that the AxeFX starts sounding the same every time, whereas my tube amp has inconsistencies and sounds way more ‘alive’ than the digital modeler.
There are lots of people who love the AxeFX, so I wanted to simply offer a different point of view from my experiences with it. You can read heaps more comments about the AxeFX on their forums: http://www.fractalforums.com/
07.01.13
Hi Danny,
I am 59 years old, play part time in 3 bands, and have been playing guitar since I am 15 so…I think I have some experience in guitar playing and gear. Two arguments for using Axe FX..
1-At my age, you hate carrying heavy Marshall cabs, head, and pedalboard, so being able to get it all in a light simple 2 space rackmount processor makes your life muche easier…and your backache lighter…
2-When you play many different styles of music in the same set (U2, Hendrix, ZZ top, Beatles or Doobie Brothers…) you can’t really have so many pedals to get every kind of effect or sound close to the original song so…a digital processor like Axe FX will bring you 95 % of the time as close as possible to the original recording sound.
So, in conclusion, considering the pros and cons, I think that if you can afford it, go for it…I would never ever go back to carrying my heavy marshall double stack to the 3th floor of a club without an elevator…When I can simply plug and play my Axe FX 11 straight in a PA. To me, it is a good compromise. LOL !
AP
11.05.11
It’s not for everyone. It’s not an either or thing for me. I like the digital realm and I like the analog realm. Both good. Both means to an end.
15.01.12
Hi Guitarguy,
if you like analog, check out the PedalPro by Vintage Revolution. It’s an all-analog multi-fx with digital control and programmability. I’ve done a presentation vid for them which was just put up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWW_2ywut4c
Best,
Roger
11.05.11
I don’t see the Axe FX coming down to 11Rack prices that soon. Maybe in a 6 months you’ll see Standards for $1000..and as the Axe Standard goes to 1K, the 11Racks will go to $400… Mostly cause i don’t see Axe II being that available this soon..
11.05.11
Hmm, I’ve noticed the AxeFX for sale for $1500 on ebay.. but I agree with you.. It might be a while before they go down to $1000.
On a side note, apparently, a few people are trying to sue Fractal Audio as they feel their original AxeFX is now obsolete and the value has diminished with the release of the new model..
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/lounge/36143-wow-never-seen-so-much-whining-crying-lets-get-grip.html
11.05.11
Interested to hear new clips!
11.05.11
Here are some sound clips of the new Axe FX II.. enjoy!
http://soundcloud.com/spetersonmusic/05-2011-fractal-audio-axe-fx
11.05.11
If it makes you want to play guitar and is an effective tool for your musical tasks, good for you! Doesn’t matter if the gear is analog, digital, acoustic, or whatever. I’ll give you credit for being open-minded enough to give digital an honest shot.
11.05.11
Agreed. Two different animals, both excellent solutions, AxeFX way more versatile… that is without question.
11.05.11
I now own a “vintage” Axe Fx Standard. Everyone knows vintage is better
11.05.11
LOL
11.05.11
The new firmware is really good. I think it’s cool that on the day of the big announcement that he hooked us all up again; perhaps for the last time, maybe not…I don’t even think that he’s sure about it depending on what he comes up with in the future.
I do have a feeling though that once the initial surge of panic wears off that a lot of people that were perfectly happy with the Standard because it fit their needs aren’t going to be bothered to upgrade so they won’t be in a hurry to sell them off at blow out prices. Now the market may have shifted the value, but I don’t see a glut of them for sale in a month from now.
And don’t forget that we aren’t talking about stuff that there’s a whole lot of units out there to begin with. Compared to the mainstream stuff there’s only a fraction of these in existence.
I just don’t see used sales hurting 11R or the Line6 stuff at all.
11.05.11
Some good points you make there..
Also, I don’t think the upgrades in the new AxeFX II are all the amazing. Definitely an upgrade, but not a massive ‘must-have-it-now’ kind of upgrade.. well maybe not for some
11.05.11
And with so much versatility comes the price of having to dig deeper in order to pull out what the user needs. This is the reason why I sold my Standard and went with the Eleven Rack. It is far more simple and easy to use and find good sounds. With the AxeFX, I felt myself fighting it more than just actually getting around to playing it and enjoying it. Others love this fact that you can create so many great new sounds with the depth the AxeFX allows.
Even if the used Standard prices came to within $100-200 of a new 11R, I would personally stick with my 11R for my own personal wants and needs out of these types of tools.
11.05.11
I’ve got a shoe – an old shoe that’s been with me through thick and thin. I like the way it’s molded to fit my foot over the years, and all stains and dings on it come with a memory. Then I replaced it with a new shoe, same kind – and I didn’t like it because I was (choose one) 1) Missing the stains. 2) Missing the memories. 3) Felt like I was betraying my old shoe. 4) Didn’t like the ‘new shoe’ smell. So I put on the old shoe back on and never looked back.
That’s a bit what this article reads like, and while I understand it it’s not really fair to the product as reviews go. There’s too much baggage here – if you were starting from scratch and weren’t psychologically comparing the Axe-FX to something that it can never be the review would have been glowingly in favor, it sounds like. Not worthy of the damning headline, IMHO.
11.05.11
Nearly three years ago, I decided against an Axe FX. I bought a Fender Deluxe Reverb RI, and an author of Gitarre & Bass made a complete Blackface rewireing. Did cost more than the Axe. But I’m or was happy with it, one sound. And there is all my other old stuff, tons. Now there is the announcement of the Axe II and I’m feeling a little bit of GAS. Because this thing is so small, I have to carry tons of gear, filling a space wagon. That’s the reason. But, I have to sell all my stuff to get an Axe. I probably won’t do this, cause there is so many vintage stuff (I even love my old Mesa Boogie III Simul Class again). So at the end, how many sounds do you really need. I owened a Eventide H3000 when it cames out, did sell it a year later, cause it was too much tweaking, too digital, the sounds were boring after short period, felt a little bit as a toy. I never had the chance to try an Axe, so I’m afraid it would happen again… And at the end: If I’d like to drive a Rolls Royce, I probalbly would try to get one, because sitting in a Volkswagen, wich would simulate the Rolls wouldn’t be the same (smell, feeling, touching). So I think the Axe would help my back, but I’m not sure, if I would be happy at the end and all my old gear would then be gone. I like to work with two or three sounds for a long time, as I did, cause I’m working more on my sound in term of playing, then tweaking sounds.
11.05.11
… and one more thing: The older I get, the less efx I use. Have hours of fun playin’ a guitar direct in an amp (ie. Fender Deluxe Reverb RI Rewired with Jensen Jet Alnico Speaker and 6L6 Tubes, Mesa Boogie Mark III Simul Class Combo with EVL, Peavy Classic 30 with Fender Eric Johnson Strat, Steinberger GL4T, PRS Custom 1987, Ibanez PM 100, and many more Acoustics >but all real stuff! plus a ton of effects – sometime)
11.05.11
This was kind of what I went through.. I figured if I could have all those effects and amps then I would be uber happy..
But in the end, it didn’t replace my amp. It was good enough considering all the different amp models, etc.. but it couldn’t reproduce the tone of my amp enough to satisy my ears.
But, I would recommend you find one in your area, and try it out for a few hours.. You’ll quickly figure out if this is for you or not.
12.05.11
Thanks Danny for this tread. Since I’ve detected it, my GAS has gone down. I know this syndrom since more than 20 years with guitar synths. From time to time I wanted one, went to a guitar shop to try a new model, played for a few hours and was bored afterwards, but left the shop happy;-)
All the guitar shops around me have tested the axe and decided not to sell the unit. Maybe this will change with the Version 2, but I don’t think. If I get the chance, I will try one, for sure.
12.05.11
That’s interesting..
Did they say why they aren’t selling the AxeFX? Too pricey, not enough interest from guitarists.. ?
12.05.11
They think it’s not “guitaristic” enough, so everyone wants to try one, but nobody will buy one. Most guitarist like the smell of the tube… , “real knobs” (there are more guitarists out there wich couldn’t handle the fx, than others) and of course it’s expensive. Yesterday I talked to a seller and he explaind me, for him the sounds are not real enough. The other thing is, if you invest in “computer devices” or DSP’s it’s getting old in short time and you feel to buy a new device. This happens less with tube amps or stomp boxes, I think, but this is my opinion. And you have more time to play and get your own real sound.
12.05.11
I totally agree, real tube amps and analogue effects will keep their value a lot better.
Btw, thanks for all the comments and replies
12.05.11
danny,
Great thoughts on this subject. I think that the AxeFX and other digital type of guitar/amp modeling/processing certainly has its place. The thing that i miss with these things is that “feel”, that ‘connection” between what is picked and what comes from the speaker and all the interaction in between. I suppose a (poor) analogy would be touching your spouse with numb hands. You are still touching but the tactile feeling is not there. And again that is subjective. But having been playing and searching 35 years as a professional guitarist for the tone and feeling that makes my toes wiggle at this moment I have come as close as i have ever been in acheiving what my heart and soul and ears want tonally with my Fender blues deluxe RI and an assortment of great pedals. My Lonestar is an amazing amp too. Again all of htese things are tools to get the musical job done, digital or analog. It really is all about making the best music YOU can make.
Great discussion!
Have a great day!
ADAM
13.05.11
Thanks Adam!
I reckon your comment sums it up pretty nicely.
Btw, I love your album cover! Very cool.. Now I’m feeling like steak for dinner for some weird reason
http://www.heyreyguitar.com/CD_Cover_jpeg.jpg
13.05.11
People seem to get a kick out of the album cover story. That was a big chunk of brisket that i bought from costco and carved up into a guitar. I added the potatoes for the knobs and pickups and this italian deli had this long spaghetti for the strings. I finished the photo shoot (on my kitchen table) about 1:30 am, threw it in the crock pot and ate it for my birthday the next day!
MMMMM good!
C-YA!
13.05.11
That’s such a hilarious story! Cracks me up
Loving your music by the way.. I’m listening to ‘Pento Jam’ at the moment:
Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.
The guitar tone you’ve got is so nice.. juicy, warm and tasty.. loving it!
If it’s ok, I might write a post on your album and share it with everyone here.
14.05.11
Re;Pento Jam;
“The guitar tone you’ve got is so nice.. juicy, warm and tasty.. loving it!”
Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue with a Fulltone OCD and my TA Cobra
Tubes baby, tubes!!!!!
Feel free to post on my CD
Let everybody know its available direct from my website with free shipping in the CONUS and available for download at CD Baby, i-tunes, Amazon e.t.c.
thanks for the good words!!!
24.07.11
Hi Adam,
how do you like the Lonestar compared to the Blues Deluxe? I am curious too about the newer Fender Supersonic. I have built Dumble ODS clones, but they have a certain sound that works for some, where I tend to like Fender and Musicman or Old Mesa Mark I type tones, and good pedals etc. I have the Axe Fx Ultra (11.0 version) for recording it does some cool things, but when I hear Robben Ford’s “Inside story” album, I go nuts over the tones! BTW Danny thank you for posting this thread. I was thinking about selling my Ultra and other gear for an AXE II, but I am having second thoughts especially having grown up hearing and feeling what the real deal is all about. I find it more true when I play live, that the Ultra is not cutting it for me where a real amp fits in the mix more realistically compared to the digital. Digital gets artificial at points of playing certain notes, being boomy on low notes and somewhat harsh on high notes, even after extensive tweaking. I can take a good sounding tube amp with some good pedals and get a tone that really inspires me to play more.
Ed
13.05.11
I haven’t tried the Axefx2 but I’ve never gotten results I like from the digital gear I’ve tried. I’ve tried and I keep going back to tube amps and analog pedals.
One way to look at it is that these digital processors try to do dozens of different things. For each function of a digital processor (e.g. flanger, distortion, fuzz, echo), there are hundreds or thousands of pedals that do the same thing, so by sheer numbers alone, it’s incredibly probable that there are going to be several pedals that do that function better than a digital universe-in-a-box unit.
This will be true of pretty much any of the effects in a digital multi-effects unit. It’s like a Swiss Army knife: yeah, it’s cool that you’ve got something with a knife and a toothpick and a nail file but would you cut steak with a Swiss Army knife if you had any other choice? Probably not after the novelty wore off.
17.05.11
“The Swiss Army Knife for the guitar”.. that’s a fantastic way to explain it
I would rather a steak knife!
16.05.11
thx for sharing this danny.
I like your soundclips cause I can hear the straight dry sound – on many other soundclips there is a lot of fx on it. I like the part at 6:25> the axe-fx seems to react nice to the volume pot.
Atm I’m testing the axe-fx and ordered the new modell. But I would never sell my Tube Amps for it. I think they fit different purposes. I would never take the axe-fx with me to a blues club gig, but I might use it for some fast recording results or top40 production.
16.05.11
I would like to hear the postet soundclip, but it doesn’t work on my computer (Max OSX 10.6). Wich soundformat is it or is there another possability to check the soundfile out? Thanx.
16.05.11
Sorry, the new Flashplayer 10.3 changed the safety prefs. Now it works.
17.05.11
No problems Robert
17.05.11
My few cents on digital modelling of amps:
Been using digital since the original POD. I’ve found that success with digital amplification is 90% all about how well the cabinet simulation is done. Line 6 etc have done a bang-up job on modelling the preamp character of the amps but their speaker simulation is TERRIBLE and is nothing more than an equalization to emulate the frequency of a particular cab. You end up with this mushy, airy, flubby “tone” that seems to have no connection to whats coming from your fingers. No definition, no dynamics. Its just sounds like someone slapped distortion on top of wind with a beer gut.
The ultimate solution to the woes of using digital pretty much boils down to one thing…high quality convolution cabinets. It’s been quite a revelation since I’ve started using them 4-6 months ago (first starting out with the free third-party .wav files you find on forums) They’ve gotten the point where they’ve gotten so good in such a short time, you really couldn’t tell a difference unlike something like a Palmer or POD. Your fingers feel a definite connection to whats coming out of the speakers. The most impressive examples of realism with convolution imo are between the Two Notes products (PI-101 and its hardware brethren), Overloud TH2 (very overlooked since it was released this year) and the recent update of the Eleven Rack.
The Axe FX makes me face palm simply because you’re paying $2k+ for a glorified POD, which is pretty disgusting to me–especially when Lextac, which is a DANG NICE Bogner Ecstasy sim and SoloC which is a Soldano SLO amp sim–cover a wide range of tones and are both FREE. Paired with my PI-101 cabinet software ($350), I feel there’s not a single tone I cant find with very pleasing results in respect to tone and feel. Being honest, I highly believe that people’s GAS problems divert their attention away from practical solutions. Me? I methodically think out my music related purchases each and every time with no wasted motion.
Let it be known though, that I would NEVER use digital in a live setting, not even if they started making 4×12 cabinets with a tube power amp specifically designed for stuff like digital preamp models. Never Ever Ever Ever. My reasoning? Shallow as it seems, There NOTHING more rock n roll than a real tube amp head from a real amp manufacturer behind you on stage. Emulating that feeling is impossible.
17.05.11
Mick,
Well thought out reply!
I agree. digital modeling certainly has its place in the scheme of accomplishing tones and such in a variety of situations.
But that synergystic (?) coupling of man and machine (tubes) creates a whole different level of musical intercourse IMNSHO also!!!!!!!
C-YA!
Adam
17.05.11
I hear what your saying. Having listened tot he track, I wonder if some of what you’re missing is the more natural dynamics of an analog setup. from the look of the wave form, you have the compression jacked way too high. your ear will just get tired, and it is natural to miss the dynamics of your playing.
Jamie
17.06.11
I don’t think you made a fair comparison. The AxeFX through a PA or studio monitors using the cab sims is a miked cab tone. That’s very different than your combo in the room. If you had run the AxeFX through a poweramp into a traditional guitar cab that would be apples to apples. I’m sure you wouldn’t be happy with your Vox if you only ever heard it miked for a month.
17.06.11
I hear what you’re saying fredster.. however, when I played with it live I ran one output from the axefx to the PA with an amp and cab sim, and I also ran one output simultanesly to my Vox AC15 without the amp sim or cab sim. Does that make sense?
So I was still getting my ‘in room’ feel, but it still didn’t sound as good as analogue pedals straight into the amp.
In the end, for me personally, there is still a big gap between a tube amp and pedal board combo and the digital world of the AxeFX..
17.07.11
A musician friend is willing to sell his Axe-FX Ultra (w/latest updates & firmware) to me for $1200. I’m thinking for recording, it’s perfect. For live purposes what do you think of this scenario…putting it in the effects loop on a tube amp as an effects processor/emulator???
18.07.11
Hi Andy,
Just give it a try.. You’ll never know for sure until you try it yourself. I personally didn’t like it as much as my amp and pedalboard, but there are lots of guitarists who swear by the AxeFX now..
19.07.11
Hi, I have an Axe-fx. If i want to go live again, I probably would buy a frfr atomic stereo amp+cabs. I find real guitar cabs a bit limiting because they color the sound immensely and i like the versatility of more (virtual) cabs.
I know some people are using frfr amps like qsc + PA in large settings and they are happy.
I also know people who want a real guitar amp and guitar speaker setup for the extra ‘punch’ they get when gigging in bars.
If you want really good advise on this try the fractalaudio forum but they probably want more info such as setting, style etc. Also check the manual, which has several connection possibilities drawn out for you.
19.07.11
Hi,
New here!
So I have an Axe-fx Standard for about three years now (I think).
which is extremely loud!
Sold my mesa boogie because I didn’t gig anymore and at home I couldn’t crank the baby to the point it sounded good
I never had the ‘ultimate’ tone/feeling of the tubes back until a couple of weeks ago when I really digged in to the Axe-fx and the the last firmware + couple of tweaked preset patches from some talented guys on the forum gave me really good tone.
I find the Axe-fx hard to tweak. Especialy if you don’t know what you are doing. But same is true for all the mesa boogies I had. Because the Axe-fx can do more it will become more complex. They say it is easier to dail in good tone with Axe-fx II.
I’m curious about the new Axe-fx II because of the more realistic tone and easy dail in, but I probably want to spend my money first on other equipment. cabs, amps (frfr) etc.
Even though I haven’t got ultimate tube tone in the past on the axe-fx (now i think i do allot better) I always have been happy with the Axe-fx because it is able to produce really nice sounds at low levels.
Also I think the sound depends greatly on what amp and speakers you use with the axe-fx
Oh, diner time…
Bye
20.07.11
Thanks Danny, I do LOVE the Orange Rockerverb 50 mkII and Diezel Einstein too. Trying to decide on Axe-fx Ultra or tube amp to expand the creative tools. Having the two of them, at some point, is the best of both worlds.
20.07.11
Totally agree with you Andy! If I had the money, I would buy both and keep them, even if I ended up using one more than the other. It would be nice to have both on hand
23.07.11
I agree that the power-amp and speakers are a huge factor. I play my AxeFX through a Mesa Boogie 20/20 and Marshall 1960a (or a 112 at home), leaving power amp simulations turned quite low and all cab/mic emulations off. This works pretty well and I prefer it to FRFR, which I tried with an RCF ART 310A.
I love the Ultra for its flexibility and consistency at a range of volumes (although a good FRFR rig would be even better). I can try so many different flavours with different guitars and effects set-ups. It is a double-edged sword, though – quite easy to tie yourself in knots with the infinite configurations.
If I settled down to a small number preferred sounds I might see how analogue compared.
24.08.11
It’s not for everyone!
I have gone back and forth using analog and digital or a combo of both over the past 30 years. I now have the AXE-FX Ultra and play thru a powered Atomic Reactor and a QSC K-10(both are required IMHO). The AXE takes a lot of work(time and experimentation) not only to get great sounding and feeling patches but to test it and further tweak it to fit in the mix while still having the right sound and feel (MIDI files jammed to at band volume get you closer faster and recording this is an eye(ear) opener ). Having experience tweaking programable digital effects and having the real analog sounds you are trying to mimic makes it possible but still 100 times more effort than an analog setup. Once the work is done, it then becomes 100 times less effort and hassle than an analog setup. It’s not for everyone as the stock patches generally are useless meaning there is no way around the time you will have to spend getting your AXE up to it’s potential.
24.08.11
That’s true.. Once you have setup and tweaked the AxeFX to your liking, it is a lot simpler to pull the same sounds from gig to gig.
I never tried the atomic reactor and QSC K-10, and I’m sure it would have made a difference. But honesty, I’m super happy with my tube amp and pedal board. It’s simple and I can easily experiment with new sounds on the fly.
I guess everyone has their reasons for having the gear they use. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 5-10 years. Will digital take over, or will there always be a place for the analog gear?? Time will tell…
17.02.12
Hi Danny
great sound clips. I would like to make a quick question?
As I play gigs in smaller clubs as you *I think*, what do you think choosing between nova system tc and Axe fx?
so far I came up with a conclusion that nova system needs a extra distortion pedal like RAT or Suhr Riot, cause its overdrive and dist. isn’t enough.
the main problem is , that I live in a place out Europe, with no music shops with this kind of expensive pedals, and that\s way no chance to try them Live.
pls. if you can also explain a bit, what do you think connecting th Fx Axe direct to Mixer or PA , without amp, cause I think the nova system does not seem to sound nice without AMP.
By the way I had a digitech 2120 rack but I really dont like at all this wild thin sounds, I am more into juicy – warm sound..(meaning lead solos.)
thnx a lot Danny
16.10.11
Is that the demo sample of axefx 2 on clean channel?? without exaggerating I think is just ok, though in my first impression was, it’s lame. .. but Ampkit 1.2 sounds better to me at least. even the axefx guys digging the Ampkit 1.2, high gain or clean! check out their demo and thread on forum.fractalaudio.com
Given 1 or 2 year time period and having a better processing power of future iPod/iPhone/iPad, and external 30 PIN DAC interface– (or maybe andriod “if ” they could ever catch up, LOL)… Ampkit 1.2 (or future upgrade versionS) will slay the over-hype axefx! Yeah believe it, it will happen.
………………………………………………”Why I Won’t Be Buying The Axe-FX II” ??? ……………………….
it is because it is expensive and there is Ampkit 1.2. SWEET!
Yes, I am fan of awesome Ampkit 1.2 , but I am still waiting for another phenomenal developer too, Acmebargig.
Watch out
05.11.11
I have the Axe Fx Ultra, at first it was ok,but after I started getting deep with the programimg, I got rid of my amps.I use a Avalon VT-737sp as a front end for boosting, to add some color and to eq it and it made a pretty big difference in the feel and the way it sounds. I also use pedals with it and they sounds great. I know some people my think is overkill to use $2100 preamp,but think how much money you pay for a good tube amp. I’ve been playing for 30 years and I have owned Marshall plexis,JCM 800,Budda Superdrive 45,Mesa Boogie Mrk2c and Mrk2c+,Mesa Roadster, Groove Tube Soulo 75 & 150, Voxs,Fenders etc.And they all are incositent especially with the quality of tubes this days! The Axe Fx Ultra sounds the same, anywere I play it. I’ve been a recording engineer/producer for 20 yrs and I’m getting great results in the studio. My beef with Fractal Audio is that it takes so long to try to get the new Axe Fx2! I’ve been on the waiting list for a long time and it seems like everyone is getting one but me! It looks like if I was a famous guitar player you can get one right away! I now play in a cover band for fun and I get complements from guitar players that the guitar sounds I get sounds exactly like the original. We do Styx,Van Halen, Led Zep,Scorpions,Mettalica,Alice in Chains etc. I can cover all the sounds with the Axe Fx Ultra. Just my 2 cents!
30.11.11
i was pretty wow’d by how much the creator knows about science-y stuff. but of course he would have had to. haha the golden ratio thing was interesting.
this interview was a good read:
http://www.guitarmessenger.com/interviews/cliff-chase-interview-fractal-audio/
20.12.11
I’ve been playing for over 40 years, but only in the last couple of years have I reignited the passion I started out with (eh, work and study got preferential treatment). So, now I’ve got the time and cash to indulge in a bit of GAS and ODed on a few guitars, amps and a coupla dozen pedals … some are digital, some are analogue, but they’re all very good – some are better than others.
With the amps, the tube amp just creams the solid state one. With the effects, that really depends. I really, really love my MXR Carbon Copy but also love the Strymon TimeLine … and play one in front of the other.
I’ll probably get an Axe FX when they bring out the next version … cos if it’s anything like digital cameras, they are now just so faaaar superior to the film (analogue) cameras that there’s hardly any comparison.
Pro Tools (or the next big thing) will be to music as Photoshop is to photography. But I see nothing wrong with mixing them all up as you want to, by way of experimentation! Don’t limit yourself by arguments over one being better than the other, cos they’ll all change in time. Even the tubes are being improved constantly by electronic magicians around the world! Enjoy your creativity!
26.12.11
Since I started using matrix amp and Mesa cab with the axe fx it was closing time for “the real thing”.
13.03.12
What is that stand your using to stand the ultra up vertically like that?
14.03.12
Hayden, it’s just a guitar amp stand called “AMS Heavy Duty Angled Amplifier Stand”.
I bought it from ebay for $50.
Here’s a link if you’re interested: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/170769231029
14.03.12
Ah yes I see now. Thanks mate. On the look out for something about that height for my AxeFX2. Now with its 4 manual parameter dials on the front, I want something to hold it just like your picture, right near the mic stand so I can get down and turn those knobs!
Thanks for the link.
14.03.12
Hi there,
Well, my opinion is a rather different one when trying to compare analog with solidstate and digital.
I’ve always seen this debate over and over about which is better…
But to me, this is like comparing trucks with motorcycles and cars. Each one has it’s own purpose…although all of them has wheels.
I mean, tube amps were invented back then, because “radio tube amps” were the basis for signal amplification and back then, that was the technology that existed. And that technology created a kind of sound and feel.
Than solidstate was invented and amplifiers (as well as radios) started to appear, and that also had it’s own specific sound and feel.
Then digital modelling come up, and that also brought it’s specific sound and feel.
Now, impulse technology is all the rage, which basically is “saving” the original sound from the original amp, cabinet, etc., and use it to reproduce the original sound as close as possible, and that too brings it’s own specific sound and feel.
All this to say that, nothing replaces the others.
They are all options we have at our disposal to create the sound in our head.
Music is so vast and there are so many genres and personal choices…
I’ve met people that:
- don’t like tube power amps;
- don’t like tube pre-amps;
- don’t like digital modelling;
- don’t like stomp boxes;
- etc.
People try to compare each with the other, but it’s all different things.
It’s the same thing (sound, feel, etc.) reproduced in a different way.
There’s no comparison at all because you are comparing different things! If you still choose to compare it, you will never find the same thing reproduced with different technologies and you will always return to the real thing, be that returning back to analog or returning from analog to digital.
At the end it’s still sound in a different way…. like TV, HDTV and cinema, you see the same picture in a different way.
Cheers,
Hugo
14.03.12
I agree with you Hugo in some of your points..
Also, I would suggest anyone who asks which is better, to try all of the main options (ie. tube amps, digital, effects, ect) and then decide for yourself what suits your style of playing / your ears.
For me personally, I have always preferred tube amps combined with quality stomp effect pedals.
However there are so many options out there, so you just have to try it for yourself
03.04.12
Its just a new toy there will be many more around the corner to come.
21.04.12
Former tube lover here. I hate Line 6 type stuff.- I just sold my Mesa Boogie, Fender Deluxe Reverb, and Blackstar HT-5R after getting the Axe-FX2 and spending 2 weeks with it. It’s a game changer- the sound is amazingly close. I use it with a single QSC K-10 PA and the setup is very nice and tube amp like.
Along with the constant updates and great user community, the latest update will have advanced tone matching where it will be able to “hear” (IR) a recording, and then replicate that sound as your preset. Need the down-tuned sound of “Man in the Box”? let it do it’s thing and then you have that sound. It does the down tuning for you. Yes, the game is changing.
27.04.12
I own a Fender Twinolux EC since January next to my rebuilt handwired Fender Deluxe Reverb and a Boogie Mk III. I don’t need all the FX stuff of an Axe. For me real Amps are more inspiring and longer lasting. A good Tweed- or tubeamp will last forever or get even better with the years. For me it’s something very personal, like living with someone else over years and getting him/her knowing even better. If I’m in the Axe forums I still can read about the next generation. “If the Axe FX3 will come out, …” and so on. I know this with computers, digicams, smartphones and iPads. Always looking for the next generation and at some points there will be no support anymore, no updates, nothing. Therefore I don’t want having the same thing in the music area as in my job. So I can lean back, have my amps since and for years, no tweaking on knobs, but tweaking on my fingers
and finding my personal sound – me, my fingers, the strings, the wood, the cable, the amp, the speaker and my current frame of mind.
07.05.12
Everyone on here seems to be a tube purist that either plays rock, blues jazz or funk on here. All going for that old timer “rock n roll” vibe. Honestly its pretty played out.The axe fx is the ultimate METAL machine hands especially for downtuned stuff better than any amp, except maybe a DAR or diezel. I am refering mostly to clarity this device produces which has most tube amps lacking in low end clarity, even with pedals and eq’s, not to mention all the stuff is so heavy. In 10 years digital amp modelling will surpass tube amps and then all of you will be changing your minds. Yes it probably cannot replicate a tube amp EXACTLY just yet, but to my ears, turned up live with a tube poweramp the axe fx sounds top notch. Metal is a style where you want a predictable sound, the drums are usually triggered and what not.
Not to mention the new Tone matching and re amping feature so you never have to re record songs to change tone. Basically this device is saving you valuable time which equals money. You are paying for the convenience and versatility of the device. No tube setup can also record quietly in the studio and perform like the axe. A pod doesnt even come close no device even comes close this is truely a revolutionary piece of gear. I just wish there were more open minded people nowadays then the average musician that buys a les paul and a marshal to look rock n roll. It is something the newer generation will soon grow out of. Music is a form of expression. If it works for you then it doesn’t matter what other people say.
07.05.12
In theory, if you have the processing power than there’s no reason why digital shouldn’t work, right?
CC: You’re going to have people arguing semantics against that, but there’s nothing magical about analog. You’re just manipulating electrons. If you can figure out exactly the way the analog stuff is manipulating the electrons, you can come up with a formula and implement it so that it manipulates numbers in the exact same way. It’s not magic. But unfortunately some people can’t get around that fact. They think that there’s something magical happening there and there actually isn’t. All the principles are very well understood now.
We know how electronics work because we’ve been studying electronics for a hundred years now ever since the light bulb. The hard part is just duplicating the behavior with a formula. First you gotta figure out the formula, the mathematical expression, and once you get that, then you gotta code it as efficiently as possible. Of course, in the case of a vacuum tube the formula is actually pretty complicated and coding it requires a lot of horsepower.
But it’s a good time now, because DSPs are becoming incredibly powerful and relatively inexpensive and it’s only going to continue to go that way. Even the simple laptop is ridiculously powerful. Now if they could just get the latency issues under control it’d be a great platform. It’s great for post-processing though. It’s back to the whole VST thing. I don’t know if I’d want to bring a laptop on stage anyway. I’m not that bold.
07.05.12
thats an answer to an interviewers question by cliff the creator of the device.
07.05.12
I know all this arguemtations, even the interview with Cliff and I think sometimes there will be a reason to change from tube amps to the digital stuff, especially the weight and dimensions of the analog stuff is a point, if you’re giging often. Most guitarists aren’t that open minded yet. I was for years and I am bit tiered now.
I’m looking for the simulation stuff frequently, but at the moment, it’s better for me to stay with tubes. It’s not only the sound, I like the real things too, like tweed, chickenhead knobs, the tubes, warm up tubes, smell tubes, feel the vibration of the pine box in combination with the vibrating amp and so on. And I like the limitations of the sound, I’m not a Top 40 player and even not a metal player, that’s right and might be a reason.
Yesterday a played a vinyl record since years and it was a great feeling. Sounding much warmer than all my CD’s and iTunes Music. So, I think it’s a little bit the same thing and there will be people who like this. For an example: At the Design Highschool where I’m a lecturer, students are starting to make photos with analog cameras, developing the film, working in the darkroom and so on. Most of them like it much more than doing digital fotography, but it’s harder, more limitated, but they really like it for another expression. So I understand this and for me it’s a little bit the thing with the tube amps and the digital stuff.
07.05.12
Oh, and by the way, I don’t think that the Rock-Blues-Funk-Jazz Thing is played out. Even not more than the Heavy Rock Metal Shredder whateles thing…
30.05.12
Danny,
Your review is out of date. Firmware v6 for the AXE 2 is a major improvement (on top of a very good basis). Tweaking time is IMHO greatly reduced with v6, but tweaking is still possible and very powerful to adjust the sound of the amps.
Further to that, I think you forgot quite a few GOOD points for the AXE-FX. One of them being noise less devise not like most pedal boards. Another being the 4×12 grid to position the effects. An there are quite a few others.
Cheers
30.05.12
I had an Ultra, many of your points are very legitimate but it sure was a great unit. I sold it off and got on the waiting list for the AxeFXII because the developer’s final release for the Ultra was a real breakthrough in my opinion, but he had maxed out what he could do with the hardware. It was right on the cusp of being exactly how I envisioned it.
Enter the AxeFXII with firmware v4.0 by the time I received it. It was nice, it was a lot better than the 11Rack I was using in the interim, but it wasn’t miles beyond the Ultra. It was just more refined in some ways, better workflow, but the main thing was the added user cabs and built in USB. Those were very welcome.
Fast forward a few months to the release of firmware v6.0 and it’s absolutely everything that I had dared to imagine it would be. The amp models have all been reworked and the values are withing 10% of the actual amps they were designed from for things like the tone stack. Grid Modeling and a few other things like speaker drive recreate things like parasitic loss from the circuit board and distortion that a speaker provides under power.
And the best part is that out of all the amps of the Ultra I thought that the high gain models were the best and the cleans were kind of a shortcoming and I always had issues getting the Ultra to cut through the mix without using a lot of parametric EQ’s. I could get good sounds all around, but it would take days in some cases to create a good solid patch. With the AxeFXII it’s an amp and a cab and a few tweaks and I’m about 90% of the way there every time. Through in some modulation, reverb, or even a tiny bit of EQ to get it perfect and the only thing that slows me down from making 100 patches over a weekend is the fact that I can’t stop playing it long enough to make a new sound.
The tone matching feature was highly anticipated by a lot of owners and it was an obvious answer to the Kemper Profiling Amplifier thing that came out about a year ago. It works really well and is dead simple to use, but to be as frank as possible it’s an afterthought at this point because the reworked amp models are so amazing that you don’t need to cheat in order to dial in a patch.
It really is everything that I had been waiting for and I suppose that it was a little too late for some people like the person who wrote this blog. The AxeFXII is the culmination of a lot of experience by FAS in developing the first generation boxes like the Ultra and Standard and is based on lessons learned and about 4 years of feature requests by users. The scary part is that the Ultra ended on firmware v11, which is actually about 40 updates over a few years time. If he gets anywhere close to half that many with twice the processing power at his disposal I can’t even imagine where its headed. But the realist/cynic in me has to wonder just how much further he can actually take it. I’d say that the ceiling was pretty much reached after this last update…but then again I’ve said that in the past and was proven wrong.
Its not for everyone, but if you like having everything in one box and want something that has the dynamic feel of a tube amp and virtually unlimited routing and patch creation capabilities its really hard to find something that competes. If you are like me and just want convenience and probably only need like 10 really good patches its great because the quality is there in spades.
31.05.12
Why is it that most tonal experts can barely play?
02.06.12
Should have used some of the leftover money to buy a metronome
13.06.12
Actually, the launch of the FX II made the original AxeFX absolutely impossible to find. And because the price of the version 2 is a couple hundreds higher than the original Ultra, the price of the used old units didn’t drop a penny.
This reminds me of Apple a little bit… When a new Mac comes, the old supplies just vanish in thin air, and consequently the used price just stays where it is, so they can charge you more for the new one.
13.06.12
You made an interesting comment: “This is trying to simulate the real thing… for me I’d rather just get the real thing.” Well put. I have seen many players trying, for example, to get that “Deluxe Reverb sound.” I told them how to do it. The answer was simple. “Buy a Deluxe Reverb amp!”
17.07.12
I have always used high gain tube amps (mesa triple, cavin V3 with 6L6′s) and a pedal board. One of the things that got me onboard a axe-fx2 is being able to put everything in a 10 space rack and boom, pop the lids plug in and i’m good to go. I run my axe-fx 2 through a carvin 50/50 tube power amp to get some of the natural tube tones, and retail some “realness”
Im in heaven!! no more lugging all that gear to gigs, load-ins, break downs used to be a pain now they are pleasurable. The tones I get out of my Axe-fx2 rip!!!! I play metal and people that hear me swear im running a 5150 or mesa…which I am!! I even “tone-matched” my V3 which sounds dead on. Programming everything was no hassle between the PC editor and having knowledge with my Boss gt-10. Also if you purchase the axe-fx 2 it is wise to get the mfc-100 midi board as well.
The bottom line is its a great unit, and worth the $3,000 price tag. If you prefer having a clunky pedal board with tons of pedals degrading your signal chain, a bulky amp head, and multiple 4-12 cabs to haul around knock yourself out. I will be the guy in the bar having a beer relaxing with my rig!
18.07.12
on a superficial level, bitches be lovin that big ass powerful lookin amp not yo tone. plus you look like you got mad nerd swag setting that shit up at a show. axe would be straight for a recording situation but im not playin shows with it, way to expensive to risk damage. and what if you play a house party or somethin and theres no p.a.?
31.07.12
I think what a lot of people here are forgetting is that there is always something considered to be better. Marshall stoped making the plexi, Fender stopped making the super reverb, and each time it was to put out a “better” product. Each time thousands of buyers proclaimed the new product to be better, but slowly became dissatisfied.
Think about your favorite guitarists. Eddie sounds like Eddie, Larry Carlton sound like Larry Carleton, The Edge sounds like the Edge. Very few of these guitarists tout themselves as having a “versatile” sound. They perfected THEIR sound, and the rest of us strive to recreate it.
The question in my mind for the AxeFX is when do we hear that unique tone from it that somebody makes famous? When it does that it will propel itself into a classic and not just the “next best thing”. I have heard nothing useably unique from the AxeFX. All of the great guitarists on youtube demonstrating the Axe have yet to wow me with their own sound…its always “wow that sounds just like Priest” or “wow that sounds just like def leppard.” Because thats what the Axe does, it copies other people’s sounds very well. Can it do more than that… I just dont know because I havent heard a soul demonstrate it creatively.
And this is at the heart of why some people hate the axefx. I am sure plenty of people heard the Superlead 100 when it first came out and said “damn that things sucks”. But when incredible aritists mastered THEIR tones on it, it became a classic. It doesnt matter if its tube or digital or alien technology from Vega…the question is can a person make the sound from it their own? Time will tell… When I see that happening, I will consider the axe. For now people know MY tone, and that’s all I care about.
09.09.12
Did you ever run the axe fx with an amp and a guitar cab? That’s how I intend to use it once I get one, and I have heard great things about doing it that way. I would only go direct for recording…you need to have some air moving for live stuff or you lose the connection between the guitar and the “amp”. I wonder if you had tried it that way if your opinion would have been different since you mentioned running it direct through the PA.
10.09.12
Not sure if this has been said, but wanted to add.
Why choose one or the other.
I have a 65 deluxe rv blackface that I would not sacrifice for anything.
I’m also really interested in the axe fx2 and would like to make it part of my rig.
However maybe on one recording I use the axe maybe another I use my analog rig.
Maybe when I play out I bring one or another dependent on the style.
I’m just saying where does it say you have to choose.
Ultimately if it were worth while I would lug both rigs around and combine them to form a super digital/analog rig that would be the end all be all of options.
16.11.12
Doskonałagłębia;)
12.12.12
I like how tube purists go all the way to find weak points for the Axe.
You can stop, you will never. The only way you are able to question the Axe is comparing it the wrong way.
The Axe should never be compared to a live tube amp + 412 cab. It doesn’t do that. It does mic’d recording tones, compare to that. In that regard, I’m 100% sure that you will hear no difference.
Be happy with your 1 (or 2-3) tube heads and cabs. I’m happy with my 100+ heads and dozens of cabs. Be happy with your 10 pedals. I’m happy with my endless possibilities.
But first, please, make a recording of your tube amp through a mic and listen back on FRFR…
12.12.12
I won’t make a recording of my amps to compare with the axe. I’m not a recorder anyway, I want to hear, feel and smell the amps. Therefore the Axe is no way for me. If you’re thinking in a studio setup, it could be ok.
04.03.13
I am wondering why is having an Axe fx somehow a limitation to having a tube amp or a pedalboard? Especially for people that have been playing for many many years and are somewhat in the position to buy the thing. I firmly believe, that if you are in a position to spend 2300 € (I am in Europe), you can also spend another 1000, even if it is in a years time. So what is the problem of having a real pedalboard with awesome effects in the loop of the Axe? What is the problem of having a tube amp, and use it with the 4 cable method?
I don’t have an Axe and am wondering whether I should get one, as they are very very expensive and was looking for some reviews where people DISliked it for some reason and the only reason that I can buy is the tinkering and tweaking part. I had a digital unit (G-major2) which I sold exactly because of the too much tinkering. But saying that you cannot have a real pedalboard if you want and use all the wonderful features of the axe (especially those for recording, reamping, recording your clean tone BEFORE it gets into your tube amp, etc.) is a weird statement I feel…
Cheers!
24.03.13
I’ve been burned before (I traded a boogie and a les paul on a first generation guitar synth in the 80′s)
And I know the value will drop hugely, it isn’t an investment
And I love my tube gear (modded AC30, Modded AC15) and my boards (I have three of them – a huge one that weighs what I weigh I think, and two smaller ones, loaded with great boutique pedals from guys like Keeley)
And everything has a road case. It has to, so it doesn’t get beat to crap.
So I put a 25 pound case on my 80 pound amp. And my 80 pound pedalboard goes in a case as well.
And I just based my CAR PURCHASE on the size of my damn ROAD CASE. Wanted a nice Dodge Charger, But I can’t get my amp and roadcases into the damn trunk.
I think I’m keeping everything, maybe selling a guitar to pay for this, as it is one I don’t play much anyway. Or trading the guitar for an Axe FX II Mark II. (worth aboiut the same)
So once in a while I’d like to just walk in with a guitar in one hand and a 2U rack bag in the other and plug in and play. Witha very small board (keeley comp, wah, TC delay) We’ve got a great sound man with killer monitors and mains. I know I won’t feel the same way about it as I do about my AC30. But for some small venues, for drop in gigs, for hired gun gigs – I think it’ll be just fine. And I won’t whine when it drops in value.
03.05.13
What a dumbass article, from a dumbass who sells all his gear. Dumbass!
03.05.13
What a dumbass comment from a dumbass player.
19.05.13
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